SPEAKER_03 0:02

Welcome to Action Solves Everything, the show for those who want to stop overthinking and start producing. I'm your host, Alex Montagano, broker, leader, and founder of Lockstep Realty. Around here, we believe movement creates momentum, clarity comes from doing, and the agents who take action are the ones who win. Every episode is built to help you grow your skills, your confidence, and your career. Now, let's get to work. Welcome to another episode of Action Solves Everything. Thanks for tuning in today. We've got a really special guest today, one of the cornerstones in the Indianapolis Metropolitan Real Estate Market Market, Mark Nottingham. He is the owner at At Properties Foundation Title and so many pieces of property across the across Indianapolis. Mark, what's going on, man? I'm so excited for today.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

Yeah, good morning. Thanks for having me. Always good to see you, Alex.

SPEAKER_03 1:00

Definitely. What's going on over there at App Properties? How are you doing?

SPEAKER_01 1:04

Uh well, it's the first week of April. So probably about like most of the people in our business. Um, grateful for the work and the business and the opportunity to serve clients and also kind of bracing for the next 60 days.

SPEAKER_03 1:19

Yeah. I um so funny enough, I I think you and I bumped into each other in the beginning of March. And at that point, I just looked at our stats and our data, and I was like, man, it feels a little different from last year. And from then to now, I think our team has put 60-some houses under contract in 30-some days, which we've never done. And a big part of that, like, look, the work you do is great, but the market's really opened up, and we are in like peak spring season here in Indy.

SPEAKER_01 1:50

Yeah. Yeah, we just focused in on that on a um, we have a weekly call that we do, and I I looked at some of the historic data on what happens in the month of April. Um, and it's it's crazy. We all talk about the spring season, um, but it's incredible how busy it gets for this next 60 days.

SPEAKER_03 2:10

What do you, you know, you've done this for a long time. So like take us back to what you've seen and and how you've gotten to where you are today and and how that helps you lead your agents in in your brokerage.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

Yeah. So I I got into the business at the end of 2008, uh, which was a another interesting time, very different than now. Um, and I I really didn't intend to be a full-time realtor. When I got my license, it was because there was too many foreclosures out there for sale. I was tired of looking at them. My brother and I decided we were going to try to buy some. And if I was gonna do that, I might as well represent myself. Um, so I got a license. And then um, you know, I'm in my late 20s. Uh, for those that have been around for a while, they might remember in 2009, the federal government gave a first-time homebuyer tax credit of $9,000 as a part of the stimulus for the recovery. And uh that turned out to be a key moment in my career because as a at that point in time, 29-year-old, most of my peers were significantly impacted by that tax credit. Um, there was lots of houses for sale. It was a great time to buy. Interest rates were low, not a great time to sell. But as somebody in their late 20s, this really was the perfect storm. Um, and I think the the moment for me, I remember in my probably third or fourth transaction, uh helping a first-time home buyer, a friend of mine that I had known for over a decade, uh was a very uh emotional experience, kind of life-altering moment for her. And after the closing, it struck me that this business has very, very little to do with houses. Um, so I when I was young and got my license, I didn't necessarily think about being a realtor because I'm not passionate about homes. I can't tell you uh the trends for design. I'm not into architecture. Uh, I don't think about houses that much. But at the end of that deal, it struck me that, like, oh my goodness, this is incredibly human. Like, that is our job. Uh, we are service-oriented, we're advocates. Yes, we have to understand houses, but anybody that's been successful in the business for a long time would tell you that's simply just the table stakes. It's the context. Um, so yeah, that was in late 2009. Uh, by January of 10, I'd kind of made the decision of like, okay, I think this is gonna be my uh career. Uh, it's it's gonna be my professional focus.

SPEAKER_03 4:41

Man, I love hitting on the concept of you know, houses being table stakes, more centralized with like uh relationships with people and and helping people accomplish their goals. Um, I think I've told you this. I was sitting, it was uh it was about a year ago at this time, I was getting ready to board a plane to go to a conference, and I was like, man, if somebody at this conference asks me what makes me special, I don't I don't even know what my mission is. Like, I don't know what my elevator pitches. And I asked a buddy, and he was like, dude, you're passionate about helping people become the best version of themselves, accomplish their goals, and real estate's the mechanism behind it. And it was a buddy that'd been in my life for about 10 years, and I was like, Yeah, that is the mission. And like you, I I don't feel a joy for houses. Every house I ever buy or have purchased or live in with my wife, it's never like this is the one. It's like this works for what we need in our life, and it's fits in our budget and checks a box. Like so I'm with you a hundred percent on that. So I'd love you to keep just diving in on that and then how that has transpired for you over the years and then a little bit more into your journey as well.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

Yeah. So uh my first, really my first six years in real estate were focused on selling, representing buyers and sellers, uh kind of coming to that realization of this is a human industry. I like helping somebody accomplish such a major life event. Um that was uh very satisfying. I enjoyed it. Uh, but over time, I think the thing that occurred to me uh as a realtor, we get to be in someone's life for a long time, hopefully. Although, to be honest, most realtors don't do a good job of that. We certainly have the opportunity to be in their life for a long time. But from a sales cycle perspective, so like professionally, how long do we tend to be in their life at like for one thing? Six months, maybe. Depends on market conditions, I suppose, but say somewhere three to six months. And then our relationship shifts with them. Hopefully we can stay in touch. But that cycle of us helping them is relatively short. Um I found, so some of this was from my previous work and nonprofit, uh, but also just my experience in the industry. I found that if I could navigate to a way where my job was to walk shoulder to shoulder with somebody to help them accomplish something over a longer period of time, that that would be more energizing, even more satisfying and motivating for me. And so that somewhere in the 2016, 2017 uh time period, I kind of saw the opportunity to transition more toward uh working with other realtors. So building a team, building a brokerage, um, helping our staff. So it I view it as, yeah, like the house is the context. The house is no longer the context for me. Um, it's helping other people become the best professional they can be and helping improve the quality of their life. So it's very similar. I just get to do it over a longer time horizon. Um, and that has been very motivating for me. I I love doing that. I now um, I mean, I I like working with new people as well, but uh, have the privilege. There's people now that I've been working very closely with for a decade, um, which is really cool.

SPEAKER_03 8:13

That's to me, that's like um, as I look at like what we've done at Lockstep, and you and I have had these conversations, but I think it's like um, you know, some of our most tenured people that I've worked with, it's like five to six years into that relationship. And to only be 50 to 60 percent of what you've had the a the ability to do and like the time that you've had, and then you see like the impact that you make in people's lives, it's it's pretty incredible. Um, and look, like I think done correctly, like from your seat or my seat, if you support those agents correctly, they do this relationship building for the long horizon with their clients. I mean, you had said like so many realtors leave meat on the bone associated with that. But done correctly, it's like you build lifelong relationships with clients, and then you also build these impactful relationships with your agents. Um, and look, I will give you a plug here, man. Like, I would say, in terms of one of the best cultures in Indianapolis, man, I love what lockstep does. I'm really proud of what we do, but boy, oh boy, yours is bulletproof, man. It is the agents you have are all fantastic. They're all people I'm great friends with. And in to have an outsider seat, it's like you guys get it right all the time. And it's awesome to have a seat at the table to watch that.

SPEAKER_01 9:29

Uh well, I appreciate that. Uh thank you. It's easy to say you always get it right from the outside. Um, maybe we could uh have a separate episode of this where you just say, okay, Mark, tell me every single time you've gotten it wrong, and the call would last four times as long as this one. Um, but yeah, it's a learning experience.

SPEAKER_03 9:52

I think let's actually hit on that then, because I think it's important to for people that are trying to build and trying to grow, talk a little bit about like when you do face those forks in the road, and and let's say hypothetically you do get something wrong or you learn that you've got something wrong. How do you stay on track? How do you bounce back? What does that look like for you?

SPEAKER_01 10:12

Yeah, it's a really good question. Um I think there's this human tendency, especially if if you're an entrepreneur, if you're um motivated, uh, particularly in something that might be a uh, I don't think we're in a sales business, but we're in a service business that has significant opportunity to it. If you're in one of those spaces, um I think we oftentimes make a mistake of trying to be all things to all people. Um, I think that's just a part of the human condition uh for many of us that we want to be that, particularly in the business world. And I think our industry actually has exposure to this more so than others might. Um, typical business size is very, very small and income is unpredictable. So there, I think, some fear-based decision making. So I think this is true across the board for a realtor uh and for a team and for a brokerage. Too often we forget that a business model has to choose its value proposition. And therefore, it's the consumer that is the right fit for us. And I actually just to kind of boil it down to a realtor, for example, and I'll get to how this applies for us as a company. Um, I think it's a really great career stage marker for a realtor to let a client go for the first time. Um, and I don't mean uh, I don't mean I we could use the word fire that has an unnecessarily negative tone to it. Maybe that's what happened, but I mean the realtor realizes um I have to have a business model. I have to have a certain expertise, I have to value my time, I have to value my clients' time. And I can't be, I it's not possible that I am the right fit for every consumer. There has to be a specific value proposition that fits with my skill set, my passions, my energy, uh, my business model. And when I come across a consumer that's not the right fit for that, I am doing them a service and me a service by naming that early. Uh I think realtors struggle to do that. And I understand why. I can empathize with them. Um, I think companies and teams struggle for that same thing, right? We have to learn our own identity. We have to learn who who are we, who are you. Uh and then, yeah, I think being able to just embrace we know who we are, we know that there is a certain population of people that we're gonna be a great value ad for. And there's people, not nothing better and worse about it. Uh, but just the value proposition, a business model isn't gonna be right. So uh to get to that, Alex, I think it's uh uh continually learning and refining who we are, what type of value are we trying to provide, and sitting in I think confidence in that and saying, like, hey, this is who we are. We know from the start we cannot be the best provider of brokerage services to every realtor. Not possible. Because they're gonna want very different things.

SPEAKER_03 13:38

Yeah, I think um man, the timing of that in this conversation is so good. We uh had a conversation this morning, and over the last couple of weeks you can see like this change with our leadership staff in terms of like what is tolerated by uh agent behavior or lack thereof from our team. And you can see this like passion for the identity that we have transitioned to. And look, like so often we think you know, you had said like firing someone has a negative connotation, and you're right, like but helping somebody see that the opportunity of like maybe you and them or me and you or me and that agent working together is not the best fit for them as well. And so it goes back to this concept of like if a realtor comes to lockstep or if a client calls Alex, for me to try to go into the field and help them is a disservice to them. And for me to tell a particular type or style of agent that we're the best fit for them is also not it's all it's selfish. And ultimately what it leads to is like that transaction or that experience may get to a certain destination. But if you're talking and you're going back to the original point that you made to start the call, if you're doing this over the long haul, you're not going, you're not that decision does not support that. And so in addition to that, like if you're doing those deals with you know agents that or uh clients that don't sub you can't support or don't support you, or agents that don't support your business model, you're taking away from all the ones that do. And the sooner you can get to that, the better you can be as a leader, the better you can be as an agent, business person, whatever it may be.

SPEAKER_01 15:28

Yeah. Yeah, I think there's uh one of the challenges in that, I I know you've experienced it. I I think realtors do too. Um is how do you deal with the nuance of that?

SPEAKER_02 15:42

Right.

SPEAKER_01 15:42

So uh no human being is always at their best. No human being has total clarity on who they are or what they want. We're always changing, we're always growing, there's opportunity. Uh and so yeah, I think as a realtor, it can be difficult. I I know some realtors that uh perhaps at some stages in their career have been too fast to fire the client, right? It it's not a we're not a fit, it's I woke up this morning impatient, and so therefore I'm gonna wreck my business today, right? Um, but uh yeah, I think that's a growth opportunity, right? We're all able to better identify our own passions and value proposition over time. So, like, do you do you understand it better today than you did a year ago?

SPEAKER_03 16:33

I think the beauty in our career, in business in general, is you can reinvent yourself every day if you if you choose to do that or if you need to do that. And so to the point of like mistakes or getting things wrong, I think it's like those are learning experiences for everybody. And I tell this story often. One of my uh favorite agents on the team, she we had a we just had a challenge in the relationship a year ago, and I felt a ton of tension. I could tell she felt a ton of tension, like and we sat down for coffee and she just kind of let it rip for 30 minutes, and I was like, Thank you for telling me that. I didn't know. Um, also, I've never done this before, and so I'm I'm really sorry that I fell short to deliver on those things, but I can assure you it won't happen again. I'm I'm really sorry. And she was like, I never thought of that. And it was like we were the biggest we've ever been, and there was, you know, I said, you know, I my kids and this and it's like, hey, I'm trying my best. I I needed the feedback, thank you. You're right, I was wrong about A, B, C, and D. But also, like, I'm a human, I'm trying my best. And so what I've learned is like, you know, the nuance being it's just opportunity, you know, whether you get it right or wrong, it's like I in a conversation I had with Steve Robbins a couple years ago, owner of Highgarden, it was just like, you can hit me, I'll fall to the map, but I'm the first one to get back up and stay in the ring. And I think that's a superpower for so many of the successful agents is it's like you may not always get it right, but you keep coming back, you keep coming back and you keep showing up. And you know, clients deserve that from great agents, and and I know they often appreciate it. And you know, great realtors that work for strong brokerages are that are well representative of the of the industry, like those that's what makes them great oftentimes. Let's um let's like move past this a little bit and move towards like your scale and growth because what you know 2016-2017, independent, small brokerage, small shop to at properties today. You guys have a ton of killer agents, one of the bigger ones in town. I'd I'd love to just learn what that from your seat has looked like and how you got here.

SPEAKER_01 18:50

Yeah, so um as of 2016, I you know, I wasn't the only realtor in the company. We just had a a small crew uh of people that we were all pretty independent in how we functioned. Um, but it was in that year that I kind of went through that transition of like, okay, I I have a little bit more clarity on how I want to spend my time and energy. Um, but not necessarily knowing what it would look like, you know, we're 10 years later, right? Um, but just uh step by step uh building relationships with people in the industry and figuring out what type of company would I want to be a part of. Um and I don't mean that everybody else would want to, you know, to the point about identity and value proposition, never making the assumption that everybody else would or should want to be a part of that, but just what would I want to be true? Um, and can we build a company that looks like that? Um and yeah, we were independent uh all the way up until August of 21. So essentially, if we go back 10 years, um, roughly half of that 10, uh that when we were independent from 2011 to 2016 as well, but that was a very different type of company that was just me and a few others. Sure. Um, but yeah, I I always looked at being independent as um something I wanted to do intentionally, not accidentally. So long as being independent was the right uh thing for our agents, if I felt like it was the right way for us to make them the best at what they love to do, um, we would stay independent. Um and yeah, I think the industry changed a lot from 2016 to 2021. Uh, so the pandemic was there in the middle of that. But uh there's a lot of uh challenge, and I think brokerages have scaled for a reason. Um, you know, not that long ago, Alex, uh the typical brokerage in the United States was 25 or 30 people. Um, not in your and I's career, but certainly in our lifetime.

SPEAKER_00 21:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:03

Um and you know, uh the the concept of a global company, uh, which we now have several, you know, really big good players that are global brokerages. Uh you're you're affiliated with one, that didn't exist. So the scale, um, I think the role of brokerage changed. Uh so we've recognized that. Um and yeah, I I think uh teams have jumped in and played a key role in terms of people still need small scale, small group human connection. Um, so we've always been a big supporter of teams. Uh 75, 80% of our company business functions through one of our teams. Uh so to say that more clearly, not an individual team, I'm saying our teams combined uh make up four out of every five deals that our company does. So we I think we've been able to maintain. A small feel in that way. But yeah, scale allows you to do things in the lives of your people. So I view growth as value add. You and I have talked about abundance and scarcity several times. Matter of fact, last time we ran into each other, we ended up talking about abundance and scarcity. They're mentioned on every podcast everywhere all the time. But I think for good reason, because they're very impactful in the way that you look at life and business. So here's I as I think about growth in our company, I'll I'll start, I'll say all growth is not good. There is a there is a version of growth that isn't healthy, that isn't aligned. But I also think there is this kind of undercurrent view, which is a scarce view of the world and business, that says if my environment is getting bigger, I have less access to the resources I need because there's more people trying to get them.

SPEAKER_02 23:11

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 23:12

Um that is really the kind of economic definition of scarcity. Uh the economic definition of abundance would say as my environment grows, particularly if it's healthy aligned growth, um we are all generating resources, um, values, and even real wealth, not just money, but real wealth and improved access to quality of life. Uh, because now the channels that I have to obtain value, they're they're bigger, there's more of them. Um, so I yeah, I suppose you could take a cynical view and say, yeah, a team lead or an owner of a brokerage, of course they want to grow. I I just don't view it that way. I think we view it as we care about our people. Um, our job is to help improve the quality of their life. And the right type of growth can do that.

SPEAKER_02 24:15

Um, so I think it's something you and I appreciate this about you. Uh the abundant view of the world is life-changing.

SPEAKER_01 24:26

It's incredibly impactful. And that's the thing that I think triggers our growth is to view like, hey, the access to value proposition that every one of our people have ought to get better every time we add a realtor, we open a new office, we go into a new marketplace, we add a staff person. Every person that had been in the company for five years prior ought to now have a better value proposition than they did the day before. That's how we look at it.

SPEAKER_03 24:56

Yeah, I think of I think in my office, um, and you've been here, we have a bunch of workstations, we have empty desks. And so, like, bringing in an agent doesn't cost any money to have somebody sit in that desk. But what it does is it brings opportunity and energy, and that person has an opportunity to provide value to the room or learn from the room. And we had this conversation recently about you know, some of our top agents on the team, and it was like, man, I I'd love to see them offered the opportunity to lead more. And, you know, the conversation becomes like, do they want to do that? And it's like, well, oftentimes, like you don't, you I don't know, I'm not, it's not for me, but like pedestaling them and giving them opportunity to grow, like there is way more to this than just running a bunch of transactions and then going home to whatever life that is. And it's like, I think what's so cool about teams, and and look, I was forever somebody that didn't want to do a team, and it's like, uh, how did we get here? But I think what's what's interesting is like the isolation from the COVID experience, um, and what the what happened with our industry, I think it really like pulled the whole community together of agents that said, look, you need each other to accomplish any sort of thing, whether it's like transactions, inspections, because everything was such a challenge at that time. And I think like as that transitioned happened, agents just look at, I think we value community so much more. Like the world can be incredibly isolating right now, like staring at your phone, doom scrolling, feeling like everything's terrible in the world. And so to have a central place where people can come just to be together. And then when you add that people are pulling the rope towards a common goal or have similar beliefs about whether it's success or a style of work, that's where the magic really happens. Um and, you know, people have always said it's like, why do you give all of your stuff away? Like you could sell this or you could brand this and sell that. And it's like I I don't I never even think about that. Like it because if somebody would have given this to me 10 years ago when I was, you know, at this position of life, by golly, I would have taken it, or I may not have been able to afford it. So I look, I think the abundance piece is so substantial. I like you said, it is a buzzword. It's different to live it than just to talk about it. Um, but I do think it's a reason we see more of these teams, we see this brokerage scale and growth. And and again, it's like it it's a hard business out there right now, and being in the right place affords uh ease through that and and look, sometimes a clear path, too. Yeah. Um, so as you guys have like scaled and grown, you're five years into your time with at, you also crush the ancillary service side of things with foundation title and your involvement in other stuff. I think we'd be doing the listeners a disservice if we didn't tap into some of like more of what makes you you um and all the other hats that you wear. So I'd love for you to like pick a lane on some of that and talk about some of the things that you're also working on and doing right now.

SPEAKER_01 28:16

Um, well, the first thing that comes to mind is outside of work is that my oldest uh two weeks ago turned 13. So I am now the parent of a teenager. Um, and I've got three more behind him uh that will be teenagers someday. Um and yeah, I think thinking about he actually just asked me, as he turned 13, we're doing this kind of like coming of age year uh dedicated uh some travel together, just him and me and conversations. And I had just recently asked him, I was like, what's buddy? I'm I'm gonna uh pick some topics that you and I are gonna have conversations about, but I want you to pick some too. What what would you like to be intentional and talking about this year? And the first thing he said was, How do you determine what you're gonna do in life? And I said, Okay, I think what you mean by that is work. Um, and he said, Yeah, yeah, that's what I mean. Um, so I I think about the uh potential joy and gift of working with him someday, which right now he says he wants to do. He's also 13. Ask him in three years, and he might say, That is the last thing I want to do. So we'll see. Uh, but I'm uh I'm working on that all the time with my wife, Sarah. Um yeah, I uh I definitely have an entrepreneurial bent um for better or worse. Uh and I think it springs from uh, you know, it's something I observed in my parents, um, and in and certainly in my dad's dad as well. Uh but I also think it's just a um I view failure differently than most people I have encountered. So you're you're asking like, what am I focused on? Um there is always something new, uh a new opportunity that I see, or we're trying something different. Um this, I don't know if this uh you had this on your bingo card for this morning, but I'm gonna quote a line from a poem uh that is impactful in my life. I'm not like huge into poetry, but there's um Rudyard Kipling uh in the poem If uh there's a line that says, if you can meet um with success and failure and treat those two impostors just the same. Uh and I I love that line. Um, I think a lot of times people view failure as like the thing to be avoided. I don't think life works that way. Um, there is no such thing as avoiding failure. You're just picking the version of failure that you're okay with. Like we all do it. You're gonna pick the version of failure that you're okay with. So for me, trying something new in business may not work the way in which we had hoped. But I don't define that as failure. Um, another example of this, uh, the Indianapolis crowd here, it's March Madness, Final Four tomorrow in Indianapolis. Brad Stevens, the former butler coach, is director of operations for the Celtics. Um, someday I hope I get to meet Brad because I love his uh philosophy in coaching. He would always talk about people would ask him, like, why during intense games are you generally very calm? You often are sitting on the bench, you only coach in very key moments during the game. What are you doing? And he would say, Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like success uh isn't defined by whether we win or lose this game, because all that's already decided. Um, success is defined by did we do, did we make all the right decisions leading up? Did we put the work in? Did we exhibit the right behaviors? If we do that every day, we will eventually succeed. We may have failure in the moment, but it's all about the process. That was his, it's all about the process.

SPEAKER_03 32:17

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 32:17

What you from the outside see as failure just happens to be a temporary one-off thing that didn't go the way we wanted it to go. Um, so I I love that view. So starting new ventures, uh being a part of new things, I view that as opportunity. And then if they do not go well, um, that to me is not failure. I think for me personally, failure would be seeing an opportunity of something that was worthwhile and I didn't try it.

SPEAKER_03 32:53

Um how did how did you have you always been that way? Or has this been learned over time?

SPEAKER_02 32:59

No, I I think so.

SPEAKER_01 33:01

Um I helps like look, um, I've I've been incredibly privileged uh in in my life. I could make a very long list of gifts that were given to me that I did not earn. Um, one of which is that my dad and his dad were both business owners. Um, and so I think there was this ingrained a lot a lot of things from that, potentially being addicted to work, that might be one of the downsides, but um uh a high risk tolerance. Um and I think just this sense of if I see something not working right, I don't need to be a victim of that, I can be a player. Right? I I can choose uh to have influence over it. If I see a problem, I can solve it. Um and so I think uh inheriting that, yeah, I've I've kind of always been that way.

SPEAKER_03 34:03

I um I have a a good friend of mine and coach, and we had um I was he was I was listening to his podcast and he was talking about entrepreneurial success. And he said that so often early on, we like work really hard to our way of success, and that that's like I'll do anything, I'll do whatever it takes. And then once we achieve this success, and that could be like wealth or it could be like some sort of income, we kind of like pull back and we pull back that willingness to take these risks and seek opportunity, and we we don't want to screw up anymore what we've already built. And look, for a long time, I remember like I bought my first property and then I bought another one, and then I sat back on the sideline and I was like, man, the market is due for some negative decline at some point, so I'm just gonna wait. And then I was like watching, and it was like prices kept going and prices kept going, and finally it was like, you can get in the game or this will pass you by, dude. Like, go play. And here we are. I mean, look, we we've seen some dip and some negative, but we've had a pretty nice run of. I mean, I got in the business in 2012, and so it's like, yes, we've certainly had challenges and we've experienced change, but it nothing of which anybody has told us is coming has come and it and likely will not come. But you know, all that to say, it's like there is a superpower, like you said, in the ability to take risks, to face challenge, to move off what is considered a loss and turn it into a learning experience, and then just keep going for it. And look, I think there are some people that are meant for more and they understand it and they accept it and they deliver on that, and they don't sit back on the sidelines and go, you know, I I I used to think of this, like I will achieve a certain amount in business and then I will scale back my work. We tried that and I was not me, and I was not the best me. And so it's like it is this calling to do this stuff, and and look, like you had said addiction to work, like I'm passionate about my work too, I love it, but also because of what it affords me to be at home or to do with my family and friends and people in my life, and so work is a vessel. Um, it's what it has pulled out of me to provide so many. And and and and like you, it's like the risks and the opportunity and the willingness to go for it, like that's not for everybody. Um, but for those that do, you can make a pretty substantial impact. And I'd I'd say from from my seat, you've done a hell of a job of that.

SPEAKER_02 36:41

Yeah, thanks. Um, I think the tolerance for risk, you know, it's funny.

SPEAKER_01 36:47

I um this is probably true that I have a high tolerance for risk. Um, I you do too. Um, but I've I've really started to try to change the way I talk about that.

SPEAKER_02 37:00

Um all human beings constantly take risks.

SPEAKER_01 37:07

Um, I think that philosophy has been uh more impactful for me than just like, oh, do you have a high tolerance for risk or a low tolerance for risk? Um you just referenced buying investment properties. We do it um kind of an all-day focus on investment real estate once a year. We did that just last month. Um, and one of the participants was asking about how do you how do you know if a risk is uh sustainable for you, right? Like at a different stage in your career, you might be able to take a bigger risk financially than you were able to a decade before, right? So how do you measure that? And it's a it's a great question. I don't mean to um miss the nuance of it, uh, but I just said, hey, as we're talking about risk, let's acknowledge that the behavior that is viewed to be the least risky is just a different risk profile. You are risking different things. So to your point, when you bought your second investment property and sat on the sidelines for a couple of years, I think our environment would have said, oh, Alex is right now, he he's being wise, he's avoiding risk. I think in hindsight, you would look back at that and say, no, I chose a different type of risk.

SPEAKER_02 38:34

I risked missing out on equity gain.

SPEAKER_01 38:39

And as it turns out, um, you know, you would have done it differently, as we all would have, right? So we're choosing our risk. Um, there is no such thing as no risk. And I think if we can embrace that, uh, yeah, we will look at opportunity in a different way. Um could be relationally, uh, are we risking things for the people in our lives? Are we putting ourselves out there? Are we being vulnerable? Uh certainly in business. It's um, you know, I joke with our people. Um gosh, realtors, uh many of them. I was gonna say they don't like to spend money. That would be a factually inaccurate statement. Realtors love spending money, they don't love spending money in their business. Um, and I think it's it's this risk profile. It's this, uh I don't think I need to spend that money. I'm afraid of it being unnecessary or not having an ROI or so yeah, we uh I would say, well, by not spending money, you aren't avoiding risk. You're simply adopting a different type of risk.

SPEAKER_03 39:58

I think it's a strong way to look at it. Um I think so much of it too, like some of that is lack of clarity. Um you know, I think oftentimes um I remember talking to my accountant when I started like really ramping up my investment strategies, and he was like, Man, like you need to understand that what you do every day and being in in homes and and helping people buy and sell real estate is like a real cheat code for the investment piece that you want to take advantage of. And so when you say, like, man, it's high risk, you know, we were talking at the time, but it was like high risk to invest in all this real estate, it was like, well, this is what your career is, and like you're as educated as anybody's gonna be when it comes to it. And that really helped me where it's like some of risk tolerance is a trained muscle. Um, if you make take them down this similar path. And I think about whether it's like pushing your chips in the middle financially over and over and over again, um, you feel it less the longer you do it. And so you tell yourself, and the justification is, well, it's less risky. I've done it before. And the reality is, is like the market could change tomorrow, or it couldn't. And it goes back to scarcity and abundance. Um, and then clarity behind what you're doing. So it's like, well, why did you make these investments, or why is this something that you do or you want to do? Well, if I believe that it does A, B, C, and D, there is a risk profile associated with it. However, like you had just said, there's risk in everything you do or do not do. Um and with it being, you know, the trained muscle side of it, we have an agent on our team. I love him. He's talking about buying stuff and he's trying to like get into the investment game. And I I told him, I'm like, brother, I love you, man. Keep doing your your numbers and and tweaking and getting right and trying to make sure, but at some point you got to let something rip, and you're not gonna know. And I think of like my investment portfolio and the stuff I've done, it's like I thought that was gonna be my worst investment, that's my best one. That was gonna be my best one, and that's my worst one. And so it's like there is sometimes no way to know. And look, with regards to real estate, the longer you hold it, you can always rectify a quote unquote miss. Um, but that's also part of the game. Like, athletes and professionals, like we do not live in a world where you have to get it right all the time. And, you know, I I love Alex Hermozzi's line about getting, you know, the critic will tell you they're they're right 99 times out of a hundred, but the one time they're not is all that matters. And as entrepreneurs and business people, if you can continue to go for it and take those risks and push for those opportunities, there is nothing quite like it when you do achieve that success or you do have that win.

SPEAKER_01 43:06

Yeah, you'll appreciate this. Um, yeah, kind of on the real estate investment side, a um a real estate developer that's here in Indianapolis that's had a long, successful career. Um, I was getting to know him years and years ago. I had yet to buy any investment real estate. Um, but I knew that that's I wanted to do that. And I was considering a graduate program in real estate investing or real estate development. Um, at a it was at NYU. It was this virtual real estate development program in NYU. Um, I who knows if I'd have gotten in. I never even applied. But I asked him, I said, Hey, do you think this is something I should do? And I won't give you the direct quote because I I don't know what your audience sensitivity to language is. Um, but he essentially Said, why would you do that with some added language? And I was like, Well, that's what I'm asking you. Like, I feel like it would be smart before I get out there and do this to learn more about it. And he knew that I already he had been in real estate for a while. He knew that I had a baseline understanding. Um, and he said, Do you know how many deals you could totally screw up for that money that you would spend? You're gonna go spend money to avoid risk. And look, I'm not anti-education here. I'm not saying going to grad school is a bad idea. But he said, the reality is mistakes happen, risks like stuff will go right, stuff will go wrong. But everyone you do, you said, I I I appreciate Alex what you said a minute ago, something like how quickly can you convert a loss to a lushing lose a learning opportunity? Um, and I thought that was a great perspective uh from somebody that had been doing it, he'd been a real estate developer for 40 years at that point in time. Um I think that helped me kind of get off the bench or off the sideline a little bit. Uh and yeah, it's not that everyone has gone well. That's I think a myth. Uh, but I think it does help you to uh move quickly. I'm gonna uh that one's gonna stick with me, that perspective of how quickly can you change your view of a loss to something that is of value in what it teaches me and go on to the next one.

SPEAKER_03 45:33

Yeah, we we do something at lockstep, we have a Tuesday team meeting, and at the top of it we hit on the wins to start our meetings, and then the second line item. Like the original thing that we thought about is like wins and losses. And a staff member of ours, Kristen, was like, it should be wins and learning experiences. Yeah, and so we hit on that, and it's something that our agents talk about a lot. And and look, like I I write a agent blog that I send to agents every single week, and one of the first ones I wrote, and it was it was about the power of actually not winning and losing, but just being in the arena. And you know, there's the the man in the the arena that you can go find and read, but it it is something to say for like getting up to the plate and showing up and giving it your all. And it doesn't have to like there is no rule in terms of how many times you fail before you're eliminated from business or the game. It's the person that continues to take the strides, take the risk, and continues to show up. And it's like, you know, like I'm a Rocky fan, you know, I'm on this kick right now where I listen to the Rocky Four soundtrack in the mornings and it gets me to the gym and it gets me through my workouts. But it's like that's what that's why everyone loved Rocky. It was like you can't you can't put them away. And it was like that's what made those stories great. It's like Rudy and Hoosiers and USA hockey and all these beautiful things. It's like there is so much merit to the person that will show up every day, and it's not even about risk for them, it's just about I'm willing to do whatever it takes. And I think there's so much behind that in business that um you know helps define success. It's like if you hit it's not about hitting goals, it's like, do you just show up? Do you keep can you keep playing? Can you keep coming, keep coming, keep? And there is so much behind that. It look it's a driver of me, it's uh obviously a driver for you. It's it's something I can't get enough of. But yeah, this has been fantastic. Is there anything else you want to hit on for the listeners?

SPEAKER_01 47:36

Um, I no, I would say thanks for having me. I appreciate uh I think that one of the best things about our industry is that you get to know a lot of people that are coming from different places um that take a collaborative view. Uh, we all make each other better. Uh I I love the fact that you're out there talking to people from different companies. Um, I think it makes our industry a better place. Um, you know, an encouragement. I know you believe this, uh, but if we distilled it down and said, oh, wouldn't it be great if there was one realtor for all of the city of Indianapolis? That'd be such a great business opportunity. If I could have all the business, and then you think about that for a second, you're like, wait a minute. By definition, our industry requires multiple professionals working together so that every party to the transaction, including the professionals, are better off at the end of it uh than they were when they started. So just an economic premise, we need each other. Um, and I think that becomes more likely to happen if people are in relationship, have mutual respect, and are learning from each other. So yeah, thanks for what you're doing with the podcast, man. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_03 48:49

Absolutely. We we wrap this with um two things. One, where can folks find you online? Any social channels you'd like to share?

SPEAKER_01 49:00

Uh, man, I am so much not the social media uh person. I used to be a little bit more than I am now. Uh, I have not posted on social media in nearly a year.

SPEAKER_03 49:12

That feels amazing.

SPEAKER_01 49:14

It was an intentional decision, um uh as a as a part of just working on some health and mindset and boundaries things for me. So not on social, uh, but like any realtor, it is not hard to find my contact information on the I am on the internet.

SPEAKER_03 49:32

So that works. Um, and then the last question I ask the podcast is called Action Solves Everything. Um what does taking action mean to someone like you?

SPEAKER_02 49:44

Oh yeah. Um how about choose your hard?

SPEAKER_01 49:49

Um, and then yeah, uh, you said something like this earlier. We're uh we're a ninja company. We we really buy into the ninja selling uh installations and Larry Kendall and his view of the real estate industry. So one of the things that they talk a lot about is that the hard never goes away. Uh you just get better at handling the hard, and you might be able to choose which hard you want. Um, and so I think that's true in our physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, business, health, all of it. You're just choosing which version of hard you want. You just referenced listening to Rocky Ford to get yourself to the gym to physically exercise. Like, well, that wasn't the only hard option you had. Sleeping in and not exercising was just a different version of choosing hard. Uh, so recognize that you are acting in some path. You you're not avoiding action, you're just you're doing something. Uh so maybe choose your hard and get better at it.

SPEAKER_03 50:52

Awesome. That's fantastic. Thanks so much, Mark. Mark, this has been fantastic. Always a pleasure to spend time with you. I'm sure the listeners will find so much out of this. Thanks so much, and we'll talk to you soon, all right?

SPEAKER_01 51:03

Thanks, Alex.

SPEAKER_03 51:07

Thanks for listening to Action Solves Everything. If today's episode pushed you, challenged you, or helped you even take one step forward, send it to someone else who needs that same nudge. We all get better when we grow together. And if you're looking for a partnership that actually believes in coaching, collaboration, accountability, and actually becoming the best version of yourself, shoot me a message online at all social handles at Alex Montagano. That's A L E X M O N T A G A N O. Remember, success rewards the ones who move. Take action, and I'll see you on the next episode.